I can't say I know what you mean, because of course I have only one X chromosome (the other one had a leg amputated at birth). And being a white, upper-middle class male, I know I live in a world that was pretty much created for me (which I guess makes me the recipient of a different sort of assumption from the strangers I meet).
I can't say that we're ever going to get to a Gene Roddenberry society of equality and diversity. It would be nice, but I just don't see it... and certainly not in our lifetimes. That's not to suggest you just accept it and do nothing. I think you're right to call it out for what it is. Share your stories, because I know a lot of men have no idea that they're even causing offense, and I believe most of them, if aware, would be more mindful. I also think it's important to share because I think a lot of women need to know they're not alone... and they're not just imagining things, or being over sensitive.
That said, I wish you success in your quest for equanimity in the face of gender-based assumptions. Anger is a toxin, and it generally does a lot more harm to the angry person than to whomever or whatever caused the anger. And as you pointed out, the outrage machine is charging along quite nicely these days... but does it do any of us any good to become part of it?
Dec 22, 2022·edited Dec 22, 2022Liked by Holly Heyser
As a young woman, I had strangers hit golf balls at me, and explain racquetball to me, both while I was playing (and pretty competently). From that day to this, I've had the questionable benefit of all sorts of gratuitously rude remarks in all sorts of situations, and I do mean remarks that I'm 100% certain were insulting, and that the stranger in question wouldn't have dared deliver to a bloke. My favorite though? The many random non-historians (invariably guys) who, as soon as they learn I'm a historian, proceed to lecture me at length on their pet history subject. My PhD not only doesn't deter them, but seems to encourage them. Most men I run into are absolutely fine and lovely, but the misogyny out there is real. I honestly think most of the outrage you describe happens online, in large part because when one does remonstrate IRL, no matter how mildly,one stirs backlash. Despite my fearsome reputation, I'm kind, I'm polite, I'm tolerant... And I'm fed up of having to choose between "doormat" and "b***h". Increasingly, I'm just going with the latter. Might as well save time. 😂
Thanks for this piece. While I am happy to admit there are plenty of women who can outshoot and outhunt me, I still slip up sometimes. I mentored on a pheasant hunt once and asked my hunter, who was petite, if she was having any trouble getting through the deep snow. I like to think I'd have asked a man the same thing, but we'll never know. Her answer: "I run ultramarathons. I'm fine."
Oh my gosh, Holly, this one hits home for me. I'm 54 y female that has been solo hunting big game, upland and waterfowl for about 30 years. Thank you for capturing the spirit of how those comments feel (regardless of intent) while also reminding me that we all say stupid stuff. I've had similar experiences but the ones that stung the most were the assumptions that my 'guardian male' must be around the corner somewhere out of sight. Packing out my first archery bull, miles from the truck, clearly by myself and the dude just kept asking where my husband was and why I was carrying such a heavy load of elk. I admit that I occasionally let those remarks negatively color my memories of otherwise perfect hunts. I'll do better to remember that I, too, am guilty of letting my mouth run before my brain gives it a good edit.
On the bright side, when I do hunt with my husband and some guy wants to chat, I feel 100% guilt-free about walking away and doing my thing because that stranger likely doesn't think I have anything meaningful to add to the conversation. As an introvert (mostly), this is the perfect solution. My husband and favorite hunting partner when not going solo is the people-guy and happy to make friends, get intel, share experiences etc. and I can enjoy the silent partner role.
I've had men be respectful and inquisitive from the first comment and I try to focus on their willingness to be inclusive as an attainable goal for our outdoor community. Start with assuming good intent and work from there. Thanks for your many excellent posts.
Dec 22, 2022·edited Dec 22, 2022Liked by Holly Heyser
When I was newly married I assumed the opposite. I happily bought my husband a nice compound bow, knowing that he used to enjoy archery in high school, he is outdoorsy and he had uncles that hunted. I happily sat back and waited for him to hunt with it, to bring me delicious meat to throw into the smoker... I assumed because he was a man, he would hunt. Nine years later I said "F* it, I can do it myself, I want meat." I remember the exact moment I realized that *I* could hunt. He is very supportive of my hunting, he went through hunter safety with me but he still has zero interest in hunting. I suppose I can't be mad for doing the same thing or mad that it didn't occur to some men that women could hunt independent of a man when it didn't even occur to me that I could!
So relatable! The fist time I remember not being taken seriously, I was 15 years old, and my dad had given me a Browning 12 guage for Christmas. I was so proud that he trusted me enough to get me my own gun. A couple of days later, we were hunting and ran into some other hunters who asked about my new gun. When I said it was a 12 guage, one guy literally said "Oh no, you mean a 20 guage. A 12 guage is too big for a girl." I was speechless. Fast forward 35 years, and my dad had just gotten my daughter a Beretta 12 guage for Christmas. The night before the hunt, we were talking to some men at the club, and one of the men starts telling her how to shoot it. As if we'd give someone that didn't know how to shoot a gun as a gift!!
I'm sad to say that in all those years, with many other instances in between, my responses haven't much improved. Why I feel the need not to bruise the ego of the guy who says something stupid, probably upsets me more than their comment alone. There's a definite feeling that if I say something snarky, I might make things worse for other female hunters.
But a younger generation is coming up, and this summer when my brother told another hunter, hunting the same ranch we were that I had just shot a nice buck, the man did a double take, paused and smiled...he caught himself...and I smiled, too.
Love reading the comments…I grew up fishing & hunting birds & game & have heard all kinds of comments from guys. I feel really fortunate these days in that the groups of guys I fish & hunt with & shoot skeet with, I feel respected by them & mostly equal…’mostly equal’ only because I still catch myself thinking ‘I’m not as good a hunter’ as any of them because I’m the girl in the bunch…but that’s on me to set my own thinking right. I love the hunt, comraderie & stories & I’m gaining more confidence in my abilities as a hunter as I work on trusting & believing in myself & abilities. My friends do. You’re such an inspiring badass Holly, I’m glad I found your posts! Thank you for what you do!
For many years, pre-Covid, we sponsored a CWA Youth Hunter Safety Camp at our Duck Clubs in Southern California. The Girls always led the way in shooting , despite the fact that many of them had never handled a firearm before the Camp. It was always fun to observe the look of disbelief from some of the other participants when the girls kicked their ass with Rife, Shotgun and Archery.. My Granddaughter still cherishes those memories.
Making no apologies for the chauvinism you so precisely describe but there is a fine line between condescension and an honest desire to be supportive. But the culture still inscribes women as squeamish, etc. Stereotypes are hard to shake, even when the evidence of women's competence is all around us. I've spoken with many hunter educators who, almost to a person, report that young girls and older women are far more attentive and eager to learn than young boys and adult men who assume that they already understand all they need to know, as if it's genetic. I taught a course some years ago on "guns in American culture." One female student was outspokenly hostile to guns (and there were only a couple of the males in the class who had ever hunted). Near the end of the semester, I took the class to a local shooting range and brought a shotgun, a .22 rifle, and a 9mm handgun for them to shoot. The anti-gun student hit the paper targets and clays more consistently than all the others. The boys were shaking their heads and I confess to being surprised. She was mortified at her new-found skill. When she broke the last clay, everyone clapped. She smiled and said "I still hate guns." If the trend of increased participation of women continues, the condescension may decline but as your anecdote about going to the ATMs with your black boy friend reveals, some assumptions are deeply embedded in our unconscious. A "more perfect union" is very much a work in progress, in all respects. But let's keep truckin'.
I've circled back to this post several times. I want to comment, but I'm having a hard time deciding exactly what to say. First, it's unfortunate (deploarable, inappropriate?) that this happens to women with frequency. See, I struggle with the correct word choice - because as a guy I want to get it right and I know at some level my response will be judged.
There are mysoginistic guys and too many mansplainers out there. They make all men look bad - and boorish behavior shouldn't be condoned - from any gender. Mansplaining is a bit tough. When it is intentionally condescending and patrionizing it is just wrong - but what about when explanations are well intentioned and just come across wrong? I've experienced this myself.
I've been at the local grocery more than once staring at items trying to decide what I want - I'm "doing the math" to see what I want to use in a recipe. A little lady will come up and essentially ask if I need some help, usually accompanied by a "sweety". I can tell their intentions are good. They see me as a lost male who has no clue how to find items at the store, much less know how to cook. This stereotype is reinforced on TV. I know it's well intentioned to so I usually thank them and tell them I'm ok. Here's another example. The lady that owns the training center where I work my dog is 90 years old - an amazing woman. Every year I'll take her a collection of treats for Christmas. She always tells me to be sure and THANK MY WIFE for the goodies. In her world men don't cook - or at least don't cook what I bring her. I let it roll off my back because her thanks are genuine - why spoil the moment.
Then I have run across a couple of women that are the female equivalent of the misogynist - misandry. It's an unpleasant experience - leave it at that. I'm not implying I know how you feel.
To your point and experience, maybe it's the price anyone pays for being an outlier. Male or female if we don't fit the norm we have these experiences. That doesn't make it ok. It's also true that some norms need adjusting. I am a public educator and it infuriated me to see the different way male and female athletics are regarded and funded. I raised a son AND a daughter - they both deserve equal treatment and concern. We send the wrong message to half the population when it is anything else. and in a way, I guess that's your point. I don't know the answer.
I'm fighting the urge to apologize - because my brain tells me I have nothing to apologize to you about. I will say I hope the day comes when you are met and seen as an equal in the hunting field by everyone. I hope I'm part of the solution and not part of the problem.
I can't say I know what you mean, because of course I have only one X chromosome (the other one had a leg amputated at birth). And being a white, upper-middle class male, I know I live in a world that was pretty much created for me (which I guess makes me the recipient of a different sort of assumption from the strangers I meet).
I can't say that we're ever going to get to a Gene Roddenberry society of equality and diversity. It would be nice, but I just don't see it... and certainly not in our lifetimes. That's not to suggest you just accept it and do nothing. I think you're right to call it out for what it is. Share your stories, because I know a lot of men have no idea that they're even causing offense, and I believe most of them, if aware, would be more mindful. I also think it's important to share because I think a lot of women need to know they're not alone... and they're not just imagining things, or being over sensitive.
That said, I wish you success in your quest for equanimity in the face of gender-based assumptions. Anger is a toxin, and it generally does a lot more harm to the angry person than to whomever or whatever caused the anger. And as you pointed out, the outrage machine is charging along quite nicely these days... but does it do any of us any good to become part of it?
As a young woman, I had strangers hit golf balls at me, and explain racquetball to me, both while I was playing (and pretty competently). From that day to this, I've had the questionable benefit of all sorts of gratuitously rude remarks in all sorts of situations, and I do mean remarks that I'm 100% certain were insulting, and that the stranger in question wouldn't have dared deliver to a bloke. My favorite though? The many random non-historians (invariably guys) who, as soon as they learn I'm a historian, proceed to lecture me at length on their pet history subject. My PhD not only doesn't deter them, but seems to encourage them. Most men I run into are absolutely fine and lovely, but the misogyny out there is real. I honestly think most of the outrage you describe happens online, in large part because when one does remonstrate IRL, no matter how mildly,one stirs backlash. Despite my fearsome reputation, I'm kind, I'm polite, I'm tolerant... And I'm fed up of having to choose between "doormat" and "b***h". Increasingly, I'm just going with the latter. Might as well save time. 😂
Thanks for this piece. While I am happy to admit there are plenty of women who can outshoot and outhunt me, I still slip up sometimes. I mentored on a pheasant hunt once and asked my hunter, who was petite, if she was having any trouble getting through the deep snow. I like to think I'd have asked a man the same thing, but we'll never know. Her answer: "I run ultramarathons. I'm fine."
Oh my gosh, Holly, this one hits home for me. I'm 54 y female that has been solo hunting big game, upland and waterfowl for about 30 years. Thank you for capturing the spirit of how those comments feel (regardless of intent) while also reminding me that we all say stupid stuff. I've had similar experiences but the ones that stung the most were the assumptions that my 'guardian male' must be around the corner somewhere out of sight. Packing out my first archery bull, miles from the truck, clearly by myself and the dude just kept asking where my husband was and why I was carrying such a heavy load of elk. I admit that I occasionally let those remarks negatively color my memories of otherwise perfect hunts. I'll do better to remember that I, too, am guilty of letting my mouth run before my brain gives it a good edit.
On the bright side, when I do hunt with my husband and some guy wants to chat, I feel 100% guilt-free about walking away and doing my thing because that stranger likely doesn't think I have anything meaningful to add to the conversation. As an introvert (mostly), this is the perfect solution. My husband and favorite hunting partner when not going solo is the people-guy and happy to make friends, get intel, share experiences etc. and I can enjoy the silent partner role.
I've had men be respectful and inquisitive from the first comment and I try to focus on their willingness to be inclusive as an attainable goal for our outdoor community. Start with assuming good intent and work from there. Thanks for your many excellent posts.
When I was newly married I assumed the opposite. I happily bought my husband a nice compound bow, knowing that he used to enjoy archery in high school, he is outdoorsy and he had uncles that hunted. I happily sat back and waited for him to hunt with it, to bring me delicious meat to throw into the smoker... I assumed because he was a man, he would hunt. Nine years later I said "F* it, I can do it myself, I want meat." I remember the exact moment I realized that *I* could hunt. He is very supportive of my hunting, he went through hunter safety with me but he still has zero interest in hunting. I suppose I can't be mad for doing the same thing or mad that it didn't occur to some men that women could hunt independent of a man when it didn't even occur to me that I could!
So relatable! The fist time I remember not being taken seriously, I was 15 years old, and my dad had given me a Browning 12 guage for Christmas. I was so proud that he trusted me enough to get me my own gun. A couple of days later, we were hunting and ran into some other hunters who asked about my new gun. When I said it was a 12 guage, one guy literally said "Oh no, you mean a 20 guage. A 12 guage is too big for a girl." I was speechless. Fast forward 35 years, and my dad had just gotten my daughter a Beretta 12 guage for Christmas. The night before the hunt, we were talking to some men at the club, and one of the men starts telling her how to shoot it. As if we'd give someone that didn't know how to shoot a gun as a gift!!
I'm sad to say that in all those years, with many other instances in between, my responses haven't much improved. Why I feel the need not to bruise the ego of the guy who says something stupid, probably upsets me more than their comment alone. There's a definite feeling that if I say something snarky, I might make things worse for other female hunters.
But a younger generation is coming up, and this summer when my brother told another hunter, hunting the same ranch we were that I had just shot a nice buck, the man did a double take, paused and smiled...he caught himself...and I smiled, too.
Love reading the comments…I grew up fishing & hunting birds & game & have heard all kinds of comments from guys. I feel really fortunate these days in that the groups of guys I fish & hunt with & shoot skeet with, I feel respected by them & mostly equal…’mostly equal’ only because I still catch myself thinking ‘I’m not as good a hunter’ as any of them because I’m the girl in the bunch…but that’s on me to set my own thinking right. I love the hunt, comraderie & stories & I’m gaining more confidence in my abilities as a hunter as I work on trusting & believing in myself & abilities. My friends do. You’re such an inspiring badass Holly, I’m glad I found your posts! Thank you for what you do!
For many years, pre-Covid, we sponsored a CWA Youth Hunter Safety Camp at our Duck Clubs in Southern California. The Girls always led the way in shooting , despite the fact that many of them had never handled a firearm before the Camp. It was always fun to observe the look of disbelief from some of the other participants when the girls kicked their ass with Rife, Shotgun and Archery.. My Granddaughter still cherishes those memories.
Making no apologies for the chauvinism you so precisely describe but there is a fine line between condescension and an honest desire to be supportive. But the culture still inscribes women as squeamish, etc. Stereotypes are hard to shake, even when the evidence of women's competence is all around us. I've spoken with many hunter educators who, almost to a person, report that young girls and older women are far more attentive and eager to learn than young boys and adult men who assume that they already understand all they need to know, as if it's genetic. I taught a course some years ago on "guns in American culture." One female student was outspokenly hostile to guns (and there were only a couple of the males in the class who had ever hunted). Near the end of the semester, I took the class to a local shooting range and brought a shotgun, a .22 rifle, and a 9mm handgun for them to shoot. The anti-gun student hit the paper targets and clays more consistently than all the others. The boys were shaking their heads and I confess to being surprised. She was mortified at her new-found skill. When she broke the last clay, everyone clapped. She smiled and said "I still hate guns." If the trend of increased participation of women continues, the condescension may decline but as your anecdote about going to the ATMs with your black boy friend reveals, some assumptions are deeply embedded in our unconscious. A "more perfect union" is very much a work in progress, in all respects. But let's keep truckin'.
I've circled back to this post several times. I want to comment, but I'm having a hard time deciding exactly what to say. First, it's unfortunate (deploarable, inappropriate?) that this happens to women with frequency. See, I struggle with the correct word choice - because as a guy I want to get it right and I know at some level my response will be judged.
There are mysoginistic guys and too many mansplainers out there. They make all men look bad - and boorish behavior shouldn't be condoned - from any gender. Mansplaining is a bit tough. When it is intentionally condescending and patrionizing it is just wrong - but what about when explanations are well intentioned and just come across wrong? I've experienced this myself.
I've been at the local grocery more than once staring at items trying to decide what I want - I'm "doing the math" to see what I want to use in a recipe. A little lady will come up and essentially ask if I need some help, usually accompanied by a "sweety". I can tell their intentions are good. They see me as a lost male who has no clue how to find items at the store, much less know how to cook. This stereotype is reinforced on TV. I know it's well intentioned to so I usually thank them and tell them I'm ok. Here's another example. The lady that owns the training center where I work my dog is 90 years old - an amazing woman. Every year I'll take her a collection of treats for Christmas. She always tells me to be sure and THANK MY WIFE for the goodies. In her world men don't cook - or at least don't cook what I bring her. I let it roll off my back because her thanks are genuine - why spoil the moment.
Then I have run across a couple of women that are the female equivalent of the misogynist - misandry. It's an unpleasant experience - leave it at that. I'm not implying I know how you feel.
To your point and experience, maybe it's the price anyone pays for being an outlier. Male or female if we don't fit the norm we have these experiences. That doesn't make it ok. It's also true that some norms need adjusting. I am a public educator and it infuriated me to see the different way male and female athletics are regarded and funded. I raised a son AND a daughter - they both deserve equal treatment and concern. We send the wrong message to half the population when it is anything else. and in a way, I guess that's your point. I don't know the answer.
I'm fighting the urge to apologize - because my brain tells me I have nothing to apologize to you about. I will say I hope the day comes when you are met and seen as an equal in the hunting field by everyone. I hope I'm part of the solution and not part of the problem.